So, I read through the previous post. Clearly trying to type while coming off a 15 hour work shift is a poor idea at best. If I was a perfectionist I would go back and edit it but I believe in letting my mistakes propel me forward, and the knowledge that I won't revise this blog means I must remain vigilent on the "quality" of what I put up.
This said today's topic comes up from a nagging little issue I encountered several times months and months ago. The GM deliberatly hedging things in favour of the PC's. Now the GM in question has had this pointed out and is taking steps to rectify it but I will put up the specific issues I saw and why I didn't care for them.
1. Giving the players X chances to succeed.
This took several forms; we play where on each level up the player rolls his HP and if he doesnt like the roll can request the GM to reroll but must take the GM's roll. All was well and good but when one player rolled poorly, followed by a GM bad roll, later in that session the GM threw out that if that player performed a daring stunt that held approx a 80% chance of success and failure would flirt with death, that player would be allowed a 3rd roll for that levels HP. Not wanting to "be that guy" I didnt mention anything but felt marginalized. Another time one of the players got stinking drunk, derailing much of the game, at the premature ending of the session we leveled up, the drunk player being too hammered to roll his own HP was rolled twice by the GM getting a 2 and 2 again. Then the next session the GM felt it wasnt fair that he didnt get to roll his own HP and he was allowed 2 new rolls getting a 9 in the end. Now I have ended up with a 3 before and hedged my bets against rerolling a 5 while my comrades are giant blocks of HP. Now I can just say to myself "Turk you are playing YOUR way, don't worry about what others are doing" but the truth is I will generally mimic the table. So if the majority of the players are min/maxing and so combat focused that the only in game talking that occurs is related to the party mage proclaiming what NPC's have magic gear to steal, I will eventually start picking up similar traits.
GM's sometimes players will fail. This is important. Your front line fighter may not hit triple digit hit points until the mid-teens. Thats ok. Fail a jump and get a reflex save to grab something? Thats ok, giving another reflex save to the player or another to catch him? Maybe you should just let him fall.
2. Pulling punches
When masquerading as slaves to some Drow a player decided that he didn't like being talked down to by a noble, despite his character having the intellectual strength of a rutabaga. After cold cocking the noble I was thinking how we could go around retrieving his corpse to raise him, but instead of brutal torture/maiming and death the player was whipped ( which was promptly healed by our Paladin ) and sent back on his way. When our dubious mage sold our party out to a powerful Drow mage for the hint of possible power and they destroyed our disguises I tried to quickly activate my Hat of Disguise and feign shock that my "fellow Drow" were not Drow at all. The Drow Arch-mage then burned 25,000gp and a 9th level wish spell to destroy my hat. This rather annoyed me as I felt if she was going to burn 25,000gp and one of her 9th level spells over that she should probably have killed me rather than destroy a 1,800 gp utility item.
GM's if your players make poor decisions dont feel the need to pull your punches. We had 2 players each go to 2 seperate crime lords on thier own, making demands with their low level mooks that their abilities and history could never back up. The entire time they were demanding to speak with the Bosses I was expecting them to be led into the buildings to a secure room and get tuned by some thug named Rocco or the like but that never came to be. I'm not of the opinion that every NPC the PC's encounter need to be out to kill/rob them, but when dealing with known degenerates some of which are famous for their cunning and brutality are encountered feel free to impress upon the PC's that they are not dealing with civilized people. Especially if your PC's are something like a level 3 chump, no crime lord worth his cigar cutter is going to get all weak in the knees when some johnny-come-lately waltzes in and starts making demands. These people supposedly got to where they are by being smarter and more brutal than their contemporaries. Heck they should have underlings that are clever and brutal enough to deal with low level PC's well before the PC's even catch a glimpse of the Boss.
3. The enemy has a better Int than a wild animal, let them use it.
The enemies should be using every advantage that your players do. Players frequently make elaborate plans in combat that "free talking" shouldnt really cover. Allow the enemies to set up flanks or elaborate tricks as well. Wizards generally have high Int, let them use it. Have them cast spells in intelligent ways. If they have the time let them prepare the battle field, soak the ground in oil then toss a Fireball. If they notice a sterotypical min/maxed mage take the field, a good roll on Ray of Enfeeblement followed by a Rogue Str sneak attack or simple Str poison will drop that PC Wizard without even killing him. Nothing will freak a PC out more than the realization that there is a first level spell out there that can almost take him out of the fight and leave him open for a coup de grace.
Bards, Sorcerers and Paladins are notorious for having high Cha. The most under valued stat in the game. You can influence people with Cha. The PC's are a bunch of murder monkeys who laugh at everything you throw at them? Have that Cha 26 Bard incite a minor rebellion against them. Shop keeps that have heard all these horrible stories about the PC's might raise their prices, causing PC's to to act angriliy since they know the market cost of that longsword. Which will only serve to cement in that shopkeeps mind that these people are villainous. What started as possibly only a lie and rumor could now be considered canon depending on the players actions. I once turned a town against another player who had pissed off my character by doing nothing but inventing little lies, then when he actually performed some of them toting the evidence out to drunken mobs in taverns for several nights, rileing the people up. When a sizable mob showed up one night to "teach him a lesson" his PC stats offered little protection to 30 opponents swinging clubs and grappling him.
Theres more but the end result is the same. Your players will feel a sense of accomplishment in succeeding where they can fail. God mode on Doom was fun for only 5 minutes or so, it took the skill and danger out and left you with just going through the motions. Whatever rules you are going to play with stick with them. If Character death is not something you like, so be it, but think about what that means for your players.
Senior Turk:
ReplyDeleteWell said all around. One point number one, the fear or tension that comes from possibly failing is what amps the excitement. Otherwise you're just going through the motions. Get into combat, everyone dances about pulls off their fancy moves then the tooled up min-max fighter comes in ala a win button. Boring.
Losing the hat is pretty disappointing. DM's should adapt to the PC's out of box thinking. If this is the same pathfinder campaign, we skipped the whole rest of the book once we lost our disguises. The negative plane trap in the stairwell for said wizard's library was the way out. The whole castle had dimensional anchor and we couldn't port out. So we triggered the trap and plane shifted home from the negative plane... the DM let us get away with it but we missed a slew of exp and fancy gear.
Agreed, Pathfinder does a good job by giving cues for DM's on how the NPC's fight or interact with players, but few other companies do it so well. Some GM's see a slew of stats and a large description for the NPC's background and reasons... but nothing on how they deal with PC's. Some of them have a good story, PC's may never figure out these huge detailed backgrounds and GM's may not extrapolate Actions on PC.
PC's need to work with GM's and vice versa for the best experience. GM's need to think out of the box and roll with the PC's punches as much as they do the same (or try) to the GM. PC's should live with their actions and the GM's should reward bravery and allow (some say punish... not me) for the results of the PC's less brave actions. Living with the choices made is part of the fun and makes things go in a way you never expected. GM's also have the big picture of the fun. They are the gatekeepers of said fun. It's to them to make sure that the choices he makes leads to the fun of the group. They need to be able to gage when things go to far and when PC's are abusing the system and the GM's choices.
Good post Turk.